Kazushi Sakuraba

[Biggin]

I know people always associate Royce and the rest of the Gracie's with the best submission guys in MMA history, but Saku subbed them all. 4 gracies he tapped out.

Sakuraba should go down as the greatest MMA fighter ever, until someone surpasses his accomplishments. Sure he has lost some fights recently, but look at his age.

Sakuraba is the best submission artist in MMA history, and should go down as the greatest MMA fighter of his generation.

[Gotch]

Sakuraba's accomplishments are far under-rated. Remember that most people still thought the Gracies were the kings of MMA when he beat Royler, Royce, Ryan, and Renzo. He also beat a much larger Marcus "Conan" Silveira, the slick Carlos Newton, and absolutely embarrassed Vitor Belfort.

His first 4 losses came against very skilled and much larger heavyweights and a guy who was mega-juiced at the time. In his prime he was the best, no doubt about it. He changed MMA forever and is at least as important a figure to modern MMA as Royce and Randy. Doesn't get the credit he deserves.

Other factors in his down-fall are of his own doing. He drinks and smokes to excess and does not train like he should since Billy Robinson moved to the states. Robinson's departure is not even taken into account in his decline by many, but he is without question the top oldschool submissions guy still living.

The double-top (Kimura) that he caught Renzo with was textbook Robinson. Even the pulling away and then spinning back in. That's the way Robinson teaches it.

[Biggin]

Saku's kimura on Renzo was the nastiest ever, he broke his arm. To tap out four top Gracies, not beat them by TKO or decision, but to make all of them quit, is very very impressive. The 90 minute fight against Royce may be the greatest fight ever, and he made Royce quit.

Saku used catch-wrestling style submissions more than the JJ type subs, and it made him almost unstoppable. Look at the guys he has beaten:
Royce, Royler, Ryan and Renzo Gracie
Rampage Jackson
Kevin Randleman
Vitor
Conan Silveria
Guy Mezger
Shamrock
Schembri
Minowa
Funaki



and his fight MMA fight, against Kimo, was a work, Saku let him win.

He should go down as the most important Japanese fighter ever, and the best grappler ever

[Gotch]

Sakuraba trained with oldtime catch master Billy Robinson, as I mentioned before.

I can remember back in the day when there was a lot of talk about the closed door training sessions between Saku and Robinson at the Takada Dojo. No press and very little of anyone else allowed in. Someone managed to sneak a photo of the old man (Robinson) seated and giving direction to Saku and a training partner. It was like it was all cloak and dagger stuff.

[Biggin]

i saw ya mention the name but i didnt know who he was, but he is obviously a submission master

its weird, BJJ gets all the notoriety and such, but old style catch/submission wrestling has gave us some of the most talented fighters ever, like Saku, Josh Barnett (steroids or not, great fighter),Shamrock's, etc..

I wish more fighters would train catch wrestling instead of BJJ

[Gotch]

Barnett is now training with Robinson. Robinson never appears ringside with any of the fighter he trains. He is a bit of a recluse. He was a product of the "Snake Pit" catch wrestling school of Billy Riley in Wigan England. Probably the last of the truly elite level guys from that era still living.

Catch is perfect for the high level wrestler. It blends seamlessly with the game they already have, where bjj requires the high level wrestler to alter his current game significantly.